BASEMENT.ORG

Unfortunately, due to the server crash, the comments for this post were lost. Sorry guys.

-Rich

Some PC users may love to tinker with their machines.
But, the particular subclass of Mac users that I belong to would much rather tinker with their software.

Tinkering with your software on a Mac rarely destroys the thing, so we can muck around without the rush of sudden death looming over our head.

You kids might have TweakUI, but we have lovely things like Quicksilver, TextMate and inputManagers. Most Linux stuff is portable over to Mac now, being a modified BSD. It's fun times with software.

Personally, I love the fact that I don't ever have to worry about the gritty innards of my machine, it just works. My 6 year old iMac DV 400mhz still chugs along fine (I did upgrade the HD & Ram).

And, yes... We are extremely elitist. :P

It would be nice to be ABLE to tinker with the innards, I'm just happy that I don't HAVE to.

I consider myself a utilitarian computer user. When I need my computer to work, I want it to work. I don't want to have to defragment it first, or run adware/spyware blocker. I just want it to work so I can get on with other things not related to work.

That's why I love my Mac, because it allows me to not work.

I appreciat that you like to work on you computer, rather than work with it. But I wouldn't buy a car from my next door neighbor who builds cars as a hobby. I buy the best car I can for the money I have from a reputable dealer whose cars work when they're supposed to work.

Would you still buy a car it "worked" like a PC?

So I am an admin and had been working with Windows and Unix stuff for long. Then we get a Mac (OsX). Having heard so much about the glory of Mac from our end users in printing industry, we expectantly switch it on and try it out.

My only reaction was laughter and incredulity. Like Duh!!!!

I sent this link (tinyURL) to my mac user group.
Lets see the reaction. -joe

Fair enough. I love my Mac, but I am not a tinkerer. My friend Garth, on the other hand, built his PC from the ground up and was nearly driven batty when his brand-new iPod crashed for the first time and there was virtually no documentation, or bits to open up and examine, to help him out.

As for the person who said this: "Would you still buy a car it "worked" like a PC?" Well, I wouldn't, I don't know about you, but certainly a lot of people do. People buy used cars and mess around with them all the time. Right?

As a graphic design student I am led increasingly more frustrated by the fact that Mac's "just work". They don't.

I really think that it's a lifestyle thing. Sure, if I want to *just* check my e-mail, browse the web, and run photoshop to touch up a few family photos, that's fine... but I don't.

I just love storing my data in protected or otherwise difficult formats. I love how I can let windows users into my "iCastle" and then lock the gates when they try to get out with their data intact...

I bought an iBook to use for design applications, coding and tinkering. After owning it for 4 months, I sold it, and bought a PC that in my opinion still is twice as fast for the cash.

I don't like the way that Apple glosses over things when things go wrong. It's all too sugar-sweet for my liking. "Oh No! The Blue Screen Of Death!!! DIE WINDOZE UZ0RR!!!1!!",
Nope, there is no BSOD in OSX, instead you're given "The Beachball": A hypnotic exercise in user-tolerance.

My windows machine allows me to multitask: I can run PS and Flash at the same time, dashing between the two. I've found that on a Mac, PS will run beautifully while Flash is left to rot in the background and vice versae. When I try to switch, there is a delay and that damn Beachball goes off on one.

I like the way that in windows my applications "Just Load". In OSX I have to put up with bouncing icons.
Even when I try to hide the dock, their little bouncing heads pop up at the bottom the screen, just to tell me that an error has occured or it needs my attention so I can feed it some more iEgo. They can't "Just Wait".
A Mac is a computer that does not like to behave like one. Stuff doesn't "just work". Stuff tries it's hardest to show off and much like in the real world, it gets cocky and occassionally falls flat on it's face.

I would like to comment on the overall smugness of Mac users. I bought my Mac because some "power that be" that I still can't quite put my finger on, made me "feel" that as a designer I had to get one. Why?

I went into my Graphics class with my new windows machine and was met with looks of disgust. I sat there and had a blast on the HalfLife 2 demo and the Mac users around me sneered and made off-hand comments.

The best moment was when I came to present some work one day. I was in a tutorial and needed to demonstrate an interactive project to my course tutor. I reached into my bag and pulled out Mr Windows Laptop and was asked, in rather a patronising fashion, why I had switched back.

Yes, I made "The Switch", twice. I ran off with Apple and had a sordid affair. We danced amongst fields of bluebells, laid down in the straw and kissed. Then I realised I had Apple wasn't quite who I thought she was. I think you can predict where i'm heading so i'll stop there for common decency.

Yes, studios all over the world spend thousands on Apple products.

Yes, if everyone jumped off a bridge so would they.

Last but not least, I would like to argue that the OSX interface does in fact interfere with my creativity. With Windows I can turn off UI styling and have a monochromatic interface that doesn't detract from the job in hand. In OSX I have colourful buttons, all so goddamned shiny, shouting at me: "Make it all glassy, go on, just a little bit of glass... or a drop shadow... or a pinstripe".
Indeed, in Windows I get "Shut up, i'm grey. Get back to work".

At the risk of sounding like a loony due to the last paragraph i'd like to finish up now and thank you if you've read this far. I imagine that if you are a Mac user then you are probably fuming because I am threatening the collective self-esteem of thousands of "Everyday People That Have Made The Switch".
Please, genuinely do reply to this post and right my wrongs.

I just hope someone else out there has the strength to not be bullied into using a Mac for design work if they don't want to.

Think Difficult,

Rat

As a graphic design student I am led increasingly more frustrated by the fact that Mac's "just work". They don't.

I really think that it's a lifestyle thing. Sure, if I want to *just* check my e-mail, browse the web, and run photoshop to touch up a few family photos, that's fine... but I don't.

I just love storing my data in protected or otherwise difficult formats. I love how I can let windows users into my "iCastle" and then lock the gates when they try to get out with their data intact...

I bought an iBook to use for design applications, coding and tinkering. After owning it for 4 months, I sold it, and bought a PC that in my opinion still is twice as fast for the cash.

I don't like the way that Apple glosses over things when things go wrong. It's all too sugar-sweet for my liking. "Oh No! The Blue Screen Of Death!!! DIE WINDOZE UZ0RR!!!1!!",
Nope, there is no BSOD in OSX, instead you're given "The Beachball": A hypnotic exercise in user-tolerance.

My windows machine allows me to multitask: I can run PS and Flash at the same time, dashing between the two. I've found that on a Mac, PS will run beautifully while Flash is left to rot in the background and vice versae. When I try to switch, there is a delay and that damn Beachball goes off on one.

I like the way that in windows my applications "Just Load". In OSX I have to put up with bouncing icons.
Even when I try to hide the dock, their little bouncing heads pop up at the bottom the screen, just to tell me that an error has occured or it needs my attention so I can feed it some more iEgo. They can't "Just Wait".
A Mac is a computer that does not like to behave like one. Stuff doesn't "just work". Stuff tries it's hardest to show off and much like in the real world, it gets cocky and occassionally falls flat on it's face.

I would like to comment on the overall smugness of Mac users. I bought my Mac because some "power that be" that I still can't quite put my finger on, made me "feel" that as a designer I had to get one. Why?

I went into my Graphics class with my new windows machine and was met with looks of disgust. I sat there and had a blast on the HalfLife 2 demo and the Mac users around me sneered and made off-hand comments.

The best moment was when I came to present some work one day. I was in a tutorial and needed to demonstrate an interactive project to my course tutor. I reached into my bag and pulled out Mr Windows Laptop and was asked, in rather a patronising fashion, why I had switched back.

Yes, I made "The Switch", twice. I ran off with Apple and had a sordid affair. We danced amongst fields of bluebells, laid down in the straw and kissed. Then I realised I had Apple wasn't quite who I thought she was. I think you can predict where i'm heading so i'll stop there for common decency.

Yes, studios all over the world spend thousands on Apple products.

Yes, if everyone jumped off a bridge so would they.

Last but not least, I would like to argue that the OSX interface does in fact interfere with my creativity. With Windows I can turn off UI styling and have a monochromatic interface that doesn't detract from the job in hand. In OSX I have colourful buttons, all so goddamned shiny, shouting at me: "Make it all glassy, go on, just a little bit of glass... or a drop shadow... or a pinstripe".
Indeed, in Windows I get "Shut up, i'm grey. Get back to work".

At the risk of sounding like a loony due to the last paragraph i'd like to finish up now and thank you if you've read this far. I imagine that if you are a Mac user then you are probably fuming because I am threatening the collective self-esteem of thousands of "Everyday People That Have Made The Switch".
Please, genuinely do reply to this post and right my wrongs.

I just hope someone else out there has the strength to not be bullied into using a Mac for design work if they don't want to.

Think Difficult,

Rat

Last year I bought an iBook. As a photographer and writer I too was convinced by the propoganda that somehow the Mac was better. That it was faster, more stable, less tinkering more working, etc., etc., ad-f-ing-nauseum. And the day it arrived it was beautiful, in a way. All white like that. Smelled good too. The keyboard is really nice, though kind of clunky. But everything is getting clunky these days. So I installed all my apps...which were terribly slow because it only had 256mb RAM. So I went out and bought more...1GB. And topped it off. It was still slower than my old Vaio with 768MB. In every freakin' way. But I sold the vaio. I needed the Apple monitor and that color (great color) and all that. Eight months later, frustrated and shaking, I bought a PC again. Not since MS defecated on users with Windows ME had I been so close to "depressive symptoms". I hate that little iBook. I hate tiger (except for Spotlight whose index is no doubt sniffed every time you go online). Hate it like yes, I want to kill it. If it weren't for the fact that I can sell it to someone, who actually thinks they can do more with it than with a PC, for at least $500, I'd have someone pitch it to me and I'd hit it with a 34 ounce bat until it was in shards. Or better yet I'd put it on a tether. First, the iBook crashes every freakin' day! EVERY. Like if I run p-shop sometimes it won't even launch, just choke right there...then it tells me photoshop had to close. And Bridge would do the same thing. Just fail over nothing. And that beachball...ahhh that f-ing beachball. You just sit there and wait and have no idea what's going on. No status messages. Nothing. When I was switching back I was transferring email messages from the iBook to the PC and I'd pull a bunch out of Entourage and drop them in a folder on the desktop, and only when I was dealing with very few messages did they all drop in to the folder. Most of the time only a fraction would. And I'd have to do it all over again. Took e hours to complete. Then when I put them on the PC, it took 3 minutes to transfer all 4,000 messages to the proper application. And no mistakes, no re-doing it. It just worked. And also the usb storage device I was using because the mac was having issues recognizing the HD on the USB for some reason (maybe it got up on the wrong side of the bed), the iBook stopped recognizing the thing. Even re-booting didn't work. So finally I formatted it with the PC and it worked again. The mac didn't even know it existed...just work, my elbow. Oh here's a good one...when I bought the mac I had this harddrive from the vaio. A 60GB 5400RPM drive that I love. The iBook came with a 30GB slow as hell drive. So I wanted to upgrade the f-ing thing. Simple, right? Yeah, with a PC. But with the iBook? An iBook has 50 screws in front of the HD. Meaning that you have to take the ENTIRE casing apart...that means the insides too...to get at the HD. Then you've also voided the warranty. Or you can bring it to the Apple Store, leave it there with an obnoxious geek and spend a $100. No thanks. I want to work. So I used the 60G drive externally. PROBLEMS! Even files that the mac placed on the drive were oftentimes inaccessible. So I had no way of getting to my pics that I had taken of a certain rockband and had to make up an excuse so that they wouldn't fire me and I could take pics again. Then one day I hooked the thing to my sister's PC and I got to those lost files. Why hadn't I thought of that sooner. Now in my New PC I have a certain 60GB drive running. And I mean aside from the "bluesceen of death" around every corner and all the other crashes (YEAH RIGHT! I have never crashed a PC - yeah, you heard that right...NEVER)... Also when I wanted to watch a DVD on the iBook if I didn't get every last bit of dust off the disc, the app would crash the entire machine. I'd have to re-boot every time and then try to clean the disc. Sometimes it worked. most of the time it didn't. So I started ripping the things to the harddrive which solved the dirty thing but it still crashed and I'd have to re-boot. In XP even if it did crash the app, it would never crash the entire OS. And guess what else. I can now work in P-shop, Audacity, Bridge, Premiere, Word, and aftereffects without ever even worrying about a crash. All at the same time. All relatively fast, but in one app at a time it flies. They pop open. p-shop which would take thirty seconds to open the first time now takes 13 seconds. Filters in p-shop that take 70 seconds on the iBook, take 40 seconds. Yeah, and I was so pleased with performance with 512MB that I upped it to 1.25GB. Then I just put in another 1GB. So now it goes thrugh anything. And on a PC you have help for a lot of different things, not just troubleshooting, but how to actually do something. With the mac I had to go online and find all these sites where there were all these mac people asking the same questions I was. No one knew how to erase a CD or oh, get online with the network thing. See with a PC, you insert the disc open the drive and click on erase this CD, that's all. No searching for some cryptic app, and not multiple volumes if you decide to record individual items in different sessions on a CD. All one session, all one volume when you insert the CD to find you files. No searching through three, five, seven, volumes. So I think that you'e right. Using a Mac is like driving a ferrari...to go to the moon. Sure, there's some style, but you'll actually just look good never getting there. er...How do you like them apples?

Hm, it's strange when people tell me about issues with their Macs... it's so mind boggling as to why you have so many problems. I've been running Macintosh for about 2 years now and i think they are great. I've used PC's for even longer, about 4 years. I used to love tinkering and having to take apart stuff once a month to install something else, or reload my OS, and tinker with TweakUI etc, it was neat.. but now with the Mac i dont have to worry about hardware, it just works. And the OS, it just works also.. Now that i sit back and reflect, once you go Mac (you never go back, first off) but more importantly things change. You don't have to worry about errors, system crashes, reloading the OS, virus', spyware ETC, now it's all about buying new hardware and finding new software to install.

For me, the only thing I can do now is decide what machine i want to buy next. I've gone through several and will soon be in the market for a brand new iBook/MacBook or whatever they wanna call it, i prefer a smaller widescreen, we'll see what they come up with this year.

I like the fact that i don't have to spend nights reloading the OS and doing updates etc, i sorta actually liked doing that, made me feel like i knew a lot about computers.

Any techie person will some day realize, that if they know a lot about computers, the next computer they buy will be a Macintosh. There's nothing built with better hardware, better precision, they're just perfect, in a sense... as perfect as you can get with the best that technology has to offer.

I'll admit, building PC's is pretty fun. I'd still love to build myself one, just for the fun of it, but the only problem is that i cant justify spending the money. Sure i'd use it for some first person shooter games (can't really play those on a console, cant get used to the controller)... but really, that's about it! I dont want to spend about $1000 just to play counter-strike or something, i just dont see the reason. I think i'll stick to old cheap PC's for tinkering with, and loading Windows 95 and DOS games.

I'll have to stick to Unreal Tournament + mods for my Mac for gaming (when i even have time)

mac are s@it
god example on why macs are s@ it not written by myself from
http://www.jsmagic.com/spam/mac_bad.html
* Pricing -- Apple's pricing scheme is outrageous. I could get a PC that's nearly twice as fast as an iMac for half the price [+]. This, my friend, is why Apple owns less than five percent of the computing market.

* Compatibility -- When it comes to software compatibility (especially games), the PC wins, no questions asked. Very few games are compatible with Macs; just ask any hardcore computer gamer. There are many Mac users who have an extra PC for the sole purpose of game playing.

* The Dock Bar -- If you're gonna copy off of the Start Menu, at least do it right. There are several disadvantages to the Dock Bar. Its size, location, and usability problems are just a few. For a complete list of reasons, go here.

* File Backups -- XP offers a backup utility so you can select files to back up, and select a destination for the backup. You can back up to external media, you can schedule automatic backups, and you can restore from your backups. With OS X, Apple advises that you pay for a .Mac account to use to back up files.

* Extra Costs -- One of the biggest misconceptions made by Mac users is that when you buy a PC, you have to fork over hundreds of extra dollars because "Microsoft makes you buy a bunch of extra stuff." I find that odd, because I haven't had to pay a dime extra since I bought my PC, nor have any of my PC using friends. Instead, it's the other way around; once you've paid the thousand some odd dollars for the Mac itself, you have to shell out another thousand or two for the monitor, and if you want "premium services" with .Mac, that's another $99.00. Did I mention they don't come with a floppy drive?

* Ease of Use -- When it comes to ease of use, Windows XP / 2k tops the charts. Not only does it have a layout that's easily understood, the OS includes a comprehensive help database to assist you, and programs to help you with everything from networking to CD burning to installing new programs; something that is yet to be seen in OS X.

* Those annoying Switch commercials -- 'nuff said

* Support -- If your dog eats your hard drive, or you spill coffee on your computer and it some how leaks down and soaks your motherboard, it's gonna take a while to get that fixed if you're a Mac user, unless the Apple store is in your backyard. First, you have to find out the 200-letter name of the part you're missing, call Apple, order the part, and then wait a month for the parts to be delivered. Your computer sits in the corner, useless the entire time. Then, when the piece finally arrives (if it didn't break during shipping), you have to find out where the piece goes, and then struggle for hours trying to get the piece to fit. If you're a PC user and this happens, all you have to do is take your machine to the nearest computer shop.

from this page

The misunderstanding arises from the fact PC users actually like defragmenting their hard drives and upgrading their firmware. We enjoy replacing our graphics cards every six months. We love TweakUI! We share a firm belief that our struggle in this world will lead us to heaven. You Mac users, on the other hand, are on your way to hell. A weird, glossy white plastic hell.

I just rejected a chance to buy a mac book pro. I really don't like the virtual slickness of the mac OS. I have no problem doing everything and anything a mac can do. I think it's absurd to draw lines between platforms and not make a cross platform solution for the iSoftware on macs. The Mac ads of late are just stupid, and I fear that a majority of mac users spend a majority their time in iChat and Safari, I use every last Ghz my computer is capable of, every last bit of RAM everyday. Macs are great for delusional elitists who have to feel better than some supposed sub-class of computer user who would rather learn how to understand their machines inside and out than be a slave to some RAM heavy GUI that looks "cool". It never ceases to amaze me how much Mac has taken from the incredibly productive and progressive PC applications and come up with this iSeries (iMovie, iLife, etc.). Except for the very latest technical breakthroughs I've been doing way more with my PC than any Mac user I have ever known. My main gripe with the whole Mac thing is that I never push a PC agenda I just create and enjoy with PC, Mac users have to talk crap about PC's as though they have a concept. If the Mac works for you, that is great ... but please shut up about it, get to work and spend some time pursuing life beyond the computer.

I love my Mac I got off of Ebay. (Power Mac G3 OS 8.1 1997 Model)
The only think I dont like is because it don't play all my games because some are not made for Mac. :(
When I want to play a Windows game, I got to go into my parents room to use thier computer.( I am only 11)
Other than than I still like it because it can play DVDs, be hooked up to a TV or a game, VCR, or DVD console that has white, yellow, and red hook ups. I also can play only a few games on it but I don't mind.

To me, a computer is a tool... One has to think- "what do I need to do?" and then "what computer do I need to get this done?" For the most part someone could answer the second question with either a mac or a PC. The main difference I think is going to be the price. The pc is going to be cheaper. Yes, you can mess up a pc with spyware and viruses, but my answer to that is to stop downloading porn on limewire. Just don't do stupid stuff.

why must you argue
this fued will send you all too hell.
Macs are better hardware, but their OS is shit
I personally use a modified Mac/HP with windows vista to do everything and i haven't had a single problem with it at all

Long live the PC.Macs are way too expensive and too damn slow.

Why I Hate PCs AND PC users
Infinity reasons......tahst waht
I hate PCs
And anyone who is stupid enough to buy one is just asking to look stupid too

hmmm... i got a mac once, it broke after 2 days.
way to go steve jobs and team.

These threads keep me going in the world.

Well done to Apple for bringing out the mighty mouse. Its about time you appreciated that mac users have more than one finger.

We got an intel imac at work, and guess what we did, Installed bootcamp, installed windows XP. Then Never Ever looked at the maC OS ever again.

Lets get this show on the road.

-Software update.
Everytime a software update is done something else stops working.

-The Styling, 10/10 for providing an amazing doorstop "The Imac G5"

-Batteries.
If Apple are so good, Why use sony batteries ? Nothing but problems with Macbook/power book / Ipod Batteries.

-operating systems
Oh God Why o Why. its aimed a retards honestly, No warnings No recommendations nothing helpful at all in fact. Theres no it simply works, . it only works if your lucky.

-printer intallation.
Easy as Pie. So easy That You don't even realise that its been installed and that its working. (Could be a good thing though)

-Software
In most cases its upto 3x more expensive, and then you have to be lucky that the software even exists.

-Games
What ? World of warcraft YaY ! its for 2 year olds.

-Hardware/Peripherals
if it aint apple dont plug it in

-Upgradability
Not even an option on an apple, its the Memory or nothing.

In a nutshell Theres nothing an Apple Can do that A PC can't. Not to mention PC's Acutally work, where as apples do not.
As for Multimedia/Graphic design, see above reasons.

PC's are better. the sooner all apples and their promoters are in hell burning the better !

Oh mac, it's a brilliant idea isn't it.
Marketing:
"Hey I know lets get two middle age guys and pretend they're computers. Then lets poke fun at all the flaws PC had. 10 WHOLE YEARS AGO."

Mac Users who, let's face it, probably AREN'T IN THE KNOW:
There are Viruses for Mac, and no way to get rid of 'em. If you UNLIKELY get a virus for PC you download a FREE (for mac users who would like to know what the word free means look it up in a dictionary as you are hopefully well know that you have to pay for EVERYTHING you want on a mac.) and it is deleted.

"Life" Stuff is impossible on PC: Life stuff is hard to define. My Dad wanted a computer for His "Life stuff" he looked at both brands for a word processor, he chose windows for the ease and cheaper (More reliable, it's been tested.) Office. For the life stuff mac is talking about. Like Photo editing (0% of professional photo editors use this iPhoto.) should be done with Photoshop, no question. Movie making should not be done with iMovie or final cut pro (if your prepared to shell out for that kind of movie editor, go to a good software stores' bargin bin, stuff like Magix Movie editor silver edition cost me a grand total of AUS$12 and has all the features of final cut pro. A friend checked, I like to call these friends who check this stuff "Switcher off-ers.") iDVD takes ages to Render movies. It is the only dvd burner program I know where "Rendering" doesn't make a difference. Use nero you guys!!

Well, I've posted in forums all night and my computer hasn't crashed. I played with it 2 hours and my MacBook is still in the bin. Goodnight.

I won't lie. I loved Windows when I had a Windows-based PC. Everything was (fairly) standardized -- you could go out to any discount store and purchase software. I played a few games. I did a heck of a lot of word processing. Everything was rather enjoyable. I knew a fair bit about Windows, so when something crashed, I was usually able to figure out the cause. Life was good.
Then I discovered a little operating system called Linux. I downloaded a network install disc of Debian etch and decided to try it alongside Windows for a few months. All I have to say from that experience is that KDE = love.
I discovered Linux around the same time I entered university to pursue a degree in French. (I want to be a translator.) With any modern university comes computer labs, and with any good computer lab comes a few Macintosh computers, so I figured, "What the hell? I'll try out one of these iMacs and see if it's any good." I'd used Macs in elementary school, and it started a fire in me I hadn't quite been able to put out. And when I tried the newest Macs we have in our labs here (iMac G5), I fell in love with the new OS. When I found out that it was based on open-source technologies (BSD) and featured X11 among its applications, I had to make the switch.
By this time, my old laptop was starting to develop problems, so I weighed my options. Either stick with Microsoft and potentially bear first-hand witness to suffocating digital rights policies determined to take the computer out of my control and put it in Microsoft's control, buy a Linux laptop for a bit more money but guaranteed Linux compatibility, or buy a Mac. I started perusing various websites to this end, including Dell and Apple, both of whom have purchasing deals with my university. And I started reading up on Mac OS X and Windows Vista. It remains to be seen how Vista will stack up against OS X, but I'm not holding my breath.
On Black Friday of this year, I bought a MacBook. A few days later, my new computer came. Needless to say, I was amazed. The computer itself felt like the very manifestation of quality. And when I booted up, I will admit I would rather like the old-style interface from OS 8 over the annoyingly shiny and memory-chomping Aqua interface in OS X, and I will admit that I would like my Trash bin on my desktop (where it belongs, if you ask me), but I'm not going to pay for small shareware programs to accomplish the same function. I brought over all my favorite open-source programs (Firefox, OpenOffice.org, etc.) and even my favorite operating system (I tried running Ubuntu, a Debian derivative, but determined OS X was better). I even tried running Windows on my newly bought Mac, which worked quite well. But the only reason I'd have kept it on there is for video games that I'm not sure I'd play that often, so Windows came off the ard drive as well. At the end of the day, OS X is all I need. It works. I don't have to worry about unsavory website authors when I browse the Internet -- even if they managed to get some kind of spyware on my computer, I'm running a virus scanner, software firewall, and my Home folder is encrypted, so they'd have to work hard to accomplish their maligned intentions. When you combine things that any intermediate computer user would know to do with a secure core like BSD Unix, you're going to have a secure, stable OS at the end of the day, no matter what it looks like. I don't do home movies, or digital photography -- all I need is a typewriter, jukebox, Internet viewer, and occasional hacking toy. I can't think of a better platform (aside from Linux) to use when I start learning how to write programs, and I'm pressed to think of a better platform to use when doing the things any college student does: writing papers, listening to music, browsing the Internet. I do look forward to the day when Adobe releases CS3 (it's supposed to be a Universal binary, as far as I know), and I do look forward to the day Microsoft releases a Universal version of Office. Hell, I even look forward to the day they release Vista and I get to see someone using it. For all I know, it might just be better than Mac OS X. And it may not be.

Moral: Stop evangelizing operating systems. They're abstract entities, just ones and zeroes stored on a magnetic disk. They're tools, just the same as the wrenches and hammers that mechanics and carpenters use. One isn't inherently better than the other, just the same as a wrench isn't better than a hammer. As a user of Mac OS X, most of the flavors of Windows, and a few distributions of Linux, I've seen what most of the mainstream has to offer, and I'm impressed by all three. I don't think less of Windows users, and I don't think less of Linux users -- their choice is just that -- their choice.

William: Your message is the only smart insight on the page.

"I buy the best car I can for the money I have from a reputable dealer whose cars work when they're supposed to work."

But when your car breaks down, who rips you off? The dealer. (Not to mention that the macs are a tad expensive)

Okay if OSX is so cool and easy to use and what not, what the hell is the reason for the newer macs to be able to run Windows!!!!. I dont know about you guys but I'd rather just use a PC. Its cheaper and faster!!!

I use both. I think they are both great for cetain things. My mac for music production and my pc for games and school work. yes, my mac was expensive as hell but for music producion its worth every penny. My pc i love because am more free to experiment with the hardware. I would say neither is superior. Macs can sometimes be too simple to use. Conflict arises between programs already running and software im using. Windows is sometimes hard to understand and a bit complicated to do things like installation and removal, which only with XP have i found to be easy. (I've been on windows since 95 and mac since 2005.) PC user 4 lyfe, The intel macs CAN run windows under Q. The reason they cant run Virtual PC is because Mac has decided not to convert it for intel macs.

to sam above /\ :

What exactly are the advantages of using a mac for audio production specifically? I tinkered around with it before on my PC but nothing major. Yea i was saying i know the intel macs can run windows but i dont see the point. What is the point of buying an expensive as hell mac if ur gonna run windows? I was looking for a graphics upgrade for my friends mac (he does 3-d modeling on one of the few mac 3d programs Cheetah) and i didnt find squat. Yea I found keyboards, mice, monitors and other irrelevant bullshit, but no major components. Needless to say he is now a PC user. He can now use 3ds max among other great programs.

Ok here is the real deal the straight dope:

Mac's are overrated, overpriced, proprietary bullshit.

Compatibility is the main thing for audio production. In basically every professional music studio you will find a mac. A lot of audio programs are made for mac, then ported to windows. Some things honestly do run better on a mac. Also Logic and Digital Performer are mac only programs and they along with protools are the most powerful programs for Audio/MIDI production. Outside of the digidesign empire, MOTU is the best hardware, and their hardware runs best under their software, although they dont force you to buy it, unlike some other compatnies. The main problem for me personally was running multiple programs on the PC. Audio production.editing software takes up alot of CPU. I had too many things running that i didnt know were even running or that i had started myself. My PC ran four instances of svchost.exe, other random things that come with xp, plus with the virus protection running 24/7. Frankly i really hate xp. OS X doesnt really have these problems, you visually see what programs you have running. Also i can be rendering a song to disk and be working on a different program at the same time, whereas on a pc i would have to wait until it was finished. The way it is set up is almost more creativly inspiring. However, from what i have seen and heard Vista looks pretty cool. I will have to check it out for myself. As for the issue with graphics, I would agree with you. I would much rather rely on a PC for things like gaming and graphics editing. What confuses me is why alot of photographers use mac. I would'nt say macs are overrated. As for overpriced, I compared my MacBook Pro specs with an Alienware of the same specs and it was about 100 dollars cheaper, although were still talking in the $2400-2600 range. Really it comes down to personal preference. I really like the set up of OS X compared to XP. Hardware and software installation is way easier on my mac. But this is still just personal preference. For my needs and likes, OS X is the best fit, for now. Im pretty pumped to use vista.

Oh no, this is what I get when I type in "i hate macs" on my brand new shiny, piece of shit.

You're in for a world of hurt. Maybe if you have the 300-500 dollar more expensive version of my paperweight (there there shhhh quiet Bessie) (see, I call her Bessie because she is white, complacent, and utterly stupid) which has pinwheeled and crashed more times in my life than any PC in just four months of usage and this is what I saw to every Machead that deigns to say I'm doing something wrong--

I was happier when my PC was crashing because PC users didn't attack me afterwards.

*saves up for a VAIO, pats Bessie on her side*

So, now that I know what the wonderful experience of using a mac is supposed to be all about, thank-you very much, I will gladly sell it to get myself a PC with microsoft on it. At least I will be able to use it without having to pay for EVERYTHING, like your basic services.

So, now that I know what the wonderful experience of using a mac is supposed to be all about, thank-you very much, I will gladly sell it to get myself a PC with microsoft on it. At least I will be able to use it without having to pay for EVERYTHING, like your basic services. I wasn't even able to post this as safari cannot find the page...LOL.

Well I didnt really want to respond anymore to this thread since pretty pointless and everyone will still use what they prefer...but, when you said that a Macbook Pro was tha same as an alienware not so sure. I dont think I'll ever buy a branded or built computer anymore. This is what I built about 3 months ago for

I dont know why it took the price out and double posted but for less than $1300

I forgot to say thats with monitor, keyboard, some Logitech x530's and extra fans and what not.

Great article, it's nice to see a well written argument based in reality, people have been flinging shit on both sides fo the fence for too long.

to 'lachlan', of course no one uses iPhoto, Photoshop is optimized for the Mac, iPhoto is for total noobs, or people who don't want to shell out for good editting.

Also, I hope that everyone hear changes their mind and starts using a PC. PCs are great, and then I won't have to worry about you developing viruses for my Mac. Seriously, I wish more people stopped using macs!

As someone that works in IT and uses Windows daily at work, I think you really should get you head examined.

I don't think you really hate mac users. You are just simply jealous and that jealousy manifests as an irrational hatred of people that you have never met before based solely on the fact that they have a mac and you don't.

You should either get over it and move on or you try out a mac for a while and see how you like it.

As someone that works in IT and has to deal with scags of elitist pricks asking me why I haven't 'switched yet', I'd say his post is rather spot-on. The above poster, in turn, may be well served to dial down the juvenile knee-jerk reactions just a bit.

There is no element of "jealousy" in the article. The issue is not which OS happens to be superior. It is the problem of people's natural tendancy to want to become mindless advocates of whatever product or corporation happens to make them feel good about themselves. The Mac users' penchant for championing/worshipping Jobs, his company, his OS, and his MP3 player are a testament to that (from my own personal experience.)

The funny thing is, on the PC side of things, very few people will champion how 'wonderful' Microsoft or Dell happens to be. More often than not, they instead focus on their own desire to roll up their sleeves and take control of every single component of that little metal box--It is no small achievment (in my eyes) to be able to select your components, build them, and tweak them to your own exacting specifications. That is something, in my eyes, worth being truly proud of. And that serves as an understandable source of vitriol when being confronted with the derisive compulsion to "switch" from someone who's only percievable achievment, in turn, was that they had $2000 to blow on a trendily-fabricated close-ended boutique system.

Started out with the first Macs....Great computers but not very compatible with anything...So changed to pC...we had to change quite a few PC's...Macs are far a better computer in any way...we still have our first

Does that make unix usere Aristocrats? Or is that title reserved for zOs?

i hate macs: they are just pcs with a shiny cover.

i hate mac users: they are brainless

i hate mac os x: GET LINUX!

GET LINUX, BE FREE! GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!GET LINUX, BE FREE!

Well put. :)

haha, gotta laugh at all these comments...

i do use a mac and i have never had any problems with it...

I just wanted to point out that anyone using Linux is an arse. PC's are good if you wanna do work, but its just a choice and who cares!!

p.s. Linux is for tossers!

fuck you all

i loev my mac,

i make sweet love to mine every night, it might run hot but it keeps me warm in bed. pc's just didnt make love to me in the same way.

LONG LIVE MACS and their soft touch that makes me tingle and melt.

So after reading the interesting article and reading a whole lot of comments, i will still stand by my own formed original opinion.

The reasons why i think a Mac sucks is because:

1. First of all, Mac is more or less the laugh of the IT industry... Sure professionals use Macs... Ever stopped to think about why that is worth mentioning?
Because generally its assumed the IBM standardized PC is used. So why is that? Because no-one in his right mind would choose a Mac over a PC.

Yes in my opinion, Mac users overate their systems, and are stupid as hell because they are loyal to a company that sucks them financially dry.

2. A more factual statement:
Any Mac has inferior hardware. The moment it roles of the production belt, its old. Yes i know, Pre-assembled PC's also, but those you can upgrade, and if your handy, overclock with software so you dont have to upgrade but do get extra performance.

3. Any MAC software has twice as many bugs as any given top 10 linux distribution or Windows XP, Vista and even Windows 98 SE and 2000. Just because you dont hear or read about those bugs, doesn't mean they are there. Apple just not tells you about it because nobody is interested in making exploits for them. None the less, the stability of a MAC is nowhere near that of the good old x86 architecture.

4. A friend of mine bought a 1500 EURO MacBook because it looked nice and off course he is doing a graphics study. So after buying this piece of garbage, he had to buy the power cord for another extra 50 Euros as it was not supplied and unique for Apple. So in other words, you buy something that you cant use, while buying my 10th x86 architecture laptop, i received another power cord, while the laptops all where compatible with the same cord/adapter.

Also for that money i could buy a laptop which i myself could configure, be shipped to the Netherlands, a Nintendo Wii and still have some money left to... well wipe my ass when i am out of toilet paper...

So in conclusion these are only the most obvious reasons why not to buy a mac.
Some more reasons:

I just know from personal experience that steve jobs is an asshole and a wannabe-dictator, that alone should also suffice as a reason why not to buy his stolen ideas and crappy stuff.

I really hope Apple dies, as they are lying thiefs and exploit the unknown and brainless unfortunate people among us who actually like Apple.

Now i do hope those who have a mac, realize that i am not just a dumb M$ propaganda believer, i have based this on my own research and experiences.

Also if there is any doubt, i will gladly send you a copy of my officially tested IQ which lies at about 140.

Don't try to even talk Apple right, thats even worse then the quality of the products itself.

Thanks for reading.

how ridiculous. a few microsoft apologists with their little stories. and you hate mac user?

here's the bottom line. bill gates et al are theives, convicted in courts of law, over and over and over again. they have not brought one single thing to the table (name one fan boys, just one will do). they have done more to stiffle growth and creativity in the computer world than imaginable. they have driven others out of business, stolen people's livlihoods by stealing their business, on and on and on. the man you people support once said the web is a fad and microsoft won't be getting into it. yeah, a real visionary.

so it comes down to this. ethics and morals. you either buy into that amercian business has a separate set of rules or you don't. if you don't then you can't possibly support his company. if you do then your own backyard needs a cleaning.

period.

Wow...

I liked the article, it was pretty basic and more informed than most of the comments supporting Windows OS superiority...

What are you afraid of? And how are Mac users so elitist?

I think there are elitists on both sides, but I believe they have an extremely hard time acknowledging their own reflections. I mean PC for lyfe, those look like elitist statements if I have ever seen them.

I have worked in graphics and printing for over ten years and have operated both platforms on machines that were side by side. Even at home I have both.. a luxury to be sure (2 dell laptops, 2 Mac OS desktop & tower). At work, the Macs outperformed the PC's in every circumstance, the software cost the same so I don't know who is selling you your apps but you should change vendors.

I have never had a problem adding hardware to my mac with the exception of a faulty firewire drive that I had replaced.

My G3 running OS9.2, is still a monster at rendering, processing and basically doing its job.

My G5's (home and work) are pure monsters, it flies when performing tasks, I run Illustrator(both CS and CS2), Photoshop(7 & CS2), Flash, Freehand, fireworks, dreamweaver, Acrobat, Maya, Excel, Word, Toast, Safari( connected to Sirius or itunes), email, and all of my fonts open and managed by suitcase, several other apps plus ...

There are times when I have to watch the beachball for ten seconds or so, uh, that happens when you run that much at once. I have yet to operate on a Windows OS machine that did not share that kind of lag or worse when asked to perform that many tasks at once, if it could handle it.

My point anyway, if you are having a problem running two programs at once, you are operating with insufficient memory to perform at the level you are asking your machine to work at. Thats it, all there is. In my job right now i have to use 16 bit/32 bit graphics in photoshop and port them to layouts and designs in Illustrator. This is all memory hog app work and I do it with no problem fairly seamlessly between apps. I run at this level because the demands for quick turnaround are extremely important in my job, so is consistancy and performance.
*********************************************
If you can't work a Mac, its okay, really.
If you are into gaming you should not buy a Mac.
If you like to tinker, buying a Mac is fine but you will be limited.
(I have tinkered with my G3 to the point that it is still able to process at a competitive speed)
If you like certain applications that do not come in a Mac OS compatible form then don't buy a Mac.

IF you don't like the OS setup, then don't buy one. But the majority of arguments made against macs in this thread by most of the posters are probably made up, as I have yet to meet a Mac that could not live up to or excel beyond expectations.

The proprietary development done by Apple has kept the design of Macs at an optimum level for a long time, Macs I have worked have kept a higher level of performance with much much less intervention than any PC I have worked with.
------------------------
Which one of Gates or Jobs had their brand new OS lock up during its keynote presentation?

Are Macs more expensive? Yes. But they are designed extremely well, not just the brite and shiny stuff, but the actual processes and file structure. It has a secure and stable OS. The machine doesn't need a ton of adjustments becaus emost of the stuff is already there.

And, I have never, ever, not been able to use externals or add hardware.

Whatever, I just find it funny that when someone states that they like Macs, Windows users get offended to the point of absurdity.